Perspectives on Peace: Transforming Tomorrow
Perspectives on Peace: Transforming Tomorrow is the podcast hosted by The M. K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence that seeks to inform & inspire a better future.
We are based in Rochester, New York and seek to cover topics that are vital to our community and serve as the launching point to transform tomorrow. We attempt to do this in a way that feels authentic & inclusive.
Join us as we investigate perspectives on peace so that we can work on transforming tomorrow!
About The M. K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence:
The M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence (MKGI) is a nonprofit that equips people to use nonviolence to create a sustainable and just world for all.
MKGI collaborates with local organizations, academic institutions, students, and committed peacemakers in these areas: Nonviolence Education, Restorative Practices, Environmental Sustainability, & Racial Justice.
We prioritize programming for people between the ages of 12 and 24. We offer training in skills such as Nonviolent Communication, meditation, cultural humility, de-escalation and experiential interconnectedness.
By serving as a physical manifestation of Gandhian principles and Martin Luther King’s Beloved Community, the Gandhi Institute seeks to advance the cause of peacemaking regionally and beyond from within a neighborhood challenged by poverty and violence.
Perspectives on Peace: Transforming Tomorrow
Navigating Peace Across Beliefs with Dr. Rashid Muhammad
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Our conversation on Perspectives on Peace Transforming Tomorrow unravels Dr. Rashid Muhammad’s story, revealing how a military career can forge a path to championing interfaith dialogue and peacemaking.
Rashid's deep dive into the narratives of women interfaith leaders during his doctoral research isn't just academic rhetoric; it's a compelling chronicle that breathes life into his work within the local community and beyond.
This episode isn't just a reflection of a personal journey; it's a beacon for collective action and societal transformation. As Rashid illustrates the essential union between organizations like Just Cause and community entities in achieving societal equity, it's clear that the tapestry of hope he weaves is not just his own—it's one we're all part of.
Join us as we explore the potency of nonviolent principles on both intimate and international stages and celebrate the optimism that powers the next generation towards a more peaceful and equitable tomorrow.
Welcome to Perspectives on Peace Transforming Tomorrow . My name is Aaron Thompson . I am Executive Director here at the MK Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence , and I am joined today by my friend and esteemed colleague , Brother Rashid Muhammad .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadWelcome you , brother Er . It's wonderful to be here with you , as you said , somebody that is not only a colleague , but somebody that's a friend and somebody I love very much in you . So thank you for having me .
Erin ThompsonIt's a pleasure . Every time that I have the opportunity to sit and chat with you . I feel enriched
Rashid & The Gandhi Institute
Erin ThompsonWith that said , why don't we start out with your connection with the Gandhi Institute ? What was your first connection to the Gandhi Institute and or to nonviolence ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadWell , specifically to the Gandhi Institute after I had retired from the Air Force and come back home and the spiritual community that I belonged to , the greater Rochester Islamic community , and at that time Dr Muhammad Shafiq of Nazareth , with the Interfaith Institute there . He had asked me to go over to the U of R , university of Rochester and take some time to work with the Muslim Students Association over there , which was at the time somewhat very surprising to me because I had no background in theology or necessarily advising student groups and was working again coming out of the military context and in my professional context in an engineering and science role . But nonetheless I went over there and started interacting with the students and , as good things would have it , I ended up sharing an office with someone named Kit Miller , former director or director emerita of the Ghani Institute and the U of R had . You know , in the Interfaith Chapel I had put you know people that were not full-time in these different offices together and we had kind of a schedule where I was there , she wasn't there , etc . But nonetheless we were sharing this office and I would look at the books and other things she would have there .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadAnd then we ended up one day meeting and realizing that you know how you meet somebody and realize like , wow , this is a person I can really really relate to and come to understand .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadHer work in the Gandhi Institute and also the percepts of nonviolence , which is something very broadly has been of deep interest to me and always something I think I've thought about a lot in spirit . So that connection started there that evolved to opportunities to become involved in the Gallaudet Center visit , meet people , meet people such as yourself , where this connection was strengthened in two ways . One , an opportunity to serve on the Gallaudet Center's board . But a very fundamental , life-changing thing was when I went to do my doctoral work at St John Fisher and I did my doctoral field work as a part of the overall doctoral components of the classroom work . Your cops , making sure you can pass those types of things and then field work in your dissertation and doing my field work with Kit and the Ghani Institute in terms of peacemaking , those types of things , is a critical part of that experience and part of my life .
Erin ThompsonSo that's how I became involved with the Ghani Center ,
Rashid's past work
Erin Thompsonappreciate the backstory , and so you mentioned a couple of things that I'm interested in going into a little bit deeper . So you retired US Air Force Mm-hmm About 20 years . Yeah , right Right around 22 years active duty , all right around 22 years active duty , all right , and you have played an important role in interfaith dialogue locally over the years . Sir , does the chair for the Interfaith Commission locally hear that ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadI've worked , not the Interfaith Commission , but a group that I've been involved with for a long time is the Coalition for Jewish and Muslim Understanding , and that group has been around for a couple of well , even close to , I guess , 30 , 35 years and being involved in those conversations . One , because I have many friends in the Jewish community . Two , the work that we like to share and do , not only learning about ourselves and our traditions but going out and advocating for peace and better things in the world together and then served as a rotating chair we rotate the chair amongst that . So that particular group , yes .
Erin ThompsonOkay . So , speaking of your dissertation and your doctoral work , so in 2014 , I think , is when you published Recognizing the Voice of the Other Peacemakers Leadership Authenticity Narratives from Women Interfaith Organizational Leaders . So from that paper that you published , certain obvious interests stand out there . You have a clearly interest in peace making , in leadership , in highlighting and recognizing underappreciated leaders in that space , particularly women in this , in this instance . How have your interests remained the same or changed over the years and how has that affected the work that you've ?
Dr. Rashid Muhammaddone in the community .
Lessons from Military Service
Dr. Rashid MuhammadInterestingly enough , a lot of the aspects in terms of interest in peacemaking , interfaith , intergroup dialogue and people that ascribe to leadership came out of my experiences in the Air Force . This may be counterintuitive or may not seem to be the things that align , but actually in the military I found it to be a very egalitarian environment and one of the places if you look historically in American society the military has kind of been on the bow of social change , incorporating different groups and those types of things , but one a very important thing coming to have a very detailed and intimate understanding what the consequences of violence are and seeing what that happens , you know , not only in the times we live in , but historically . Two , seeing people when they are given a chance and allowed to swish based on their own capabilities and working . At the time I was in the military were the first sets of women coming out of the Air Force Academy getting in leadership positions and some of the best officers that I worked for were some of the women there . But as an African-American male and also as a Muslim in the United States military , I would see the struggles and some of the things that I would have to encounter and became very sensitized to seeing some of the things that women and my intersections , or who I am on a journey , other people are experiencing the same types of things , and seeing the excellence that they portray in that context really piqued my interest .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadAnother thing , you know , another part of my personality I'd say , if we go like more on the science and engineering side , is if half of humanity is not engaged or is barred in some way or diminished in any way , what are we saying as a species and what are we doing ? So again , some of the scholars that I study if I will synthesize those things in effect are saying you cannot just be concerned , let's say , if you're an African-American , with racism . You can't just be concerned with misogyny or those . You have to be concerned with the range of embracing humanity and bringing that forward . And again , maybe counterintuitively , in the military I made friends with people of a very diverse nature . I made friends with people of a very diverse nature , very liberal , very conservative , black , white men , women , all different types of people , and we became very close . So that experience actually helped formulate that Subsequent to retiring from the military , having a deep interest in seeing how our specific community here in Rochester was kind of an example of broader things in the country of course , but in the world , systemic and deeply entrenched problems and seeing how a lot of those problems become manifest in various types of violence .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadAnd when I say violence I'm not just talking about shootings , robbings , those types of things , but violence in terms of oppression , violence in terms of inequities . I consider those types of things to be extreme forms of violence . In mission human beings person who was one of my closest friends and that I love very dearly and had the privilege to work with and collaborate and learn from Merck and others such as yourself . I appreciate you saying that .
How do we move forward?
Erin ThompsonWhat is your experience in getting people to recognize the need to act on injustice outside of their sometimes narrowly focused interests or things that are directly impacting them in very obvious and tangible ways , in the way to kind of see the connections between the ills that we're contending with at a systemic level ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadI've had to , over the years , really reflect on myself and realizing that I have both the privilege and the inclination to have time to study , read , think about things in a broader , systemic sort of way . And being able to do that , sharing that with people in a way that's not condescending and or confrontational , but engaging in a conversation , coming to it , realizing like I may have some things of interest that I'm thinking about that I'd like to share with you . But my primary orientation is I'm here to listen and learn and hear people's experiences . You know I'm , thank God , not worried about going home tonight and if I'm going to have a meal on the table or if the lights are going to go to all that privilege that is there . So that's a starting point . But also talking with people and sharing and saying we are all part of this broader whole . With people and sharing and saying we are all part of this broader whole , what King says , we are in a mutual web , you know , interlaced with each other , and what affects one affects the whole . So starting to have conversations with people to say , you know , as we are going through our daily struggles , joys , all those types of things of life experience , it is part of a broader whole , all those types of things of life experience . It is part of a broader whole , both in terms of oppression but also in terms of good types of things . So how do we uplift ourselves in those good things as a broader whole of people but also address the injustices in the same sort of way ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadA manifestation of that may be like we're at a meeting and some people may be very rightfully upset with a particular situation , Right , and that I would offer something along the lines of hey , have we read the New York State tax code ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadHave we read the New York State penal code , the Constitution of the United States and the New York State . And people may look at me and go , Rashid , what are you talking about ? Why would you say something like that ? And then I would offer , as we are interacting with this , those are broad , systemic things that are framing the situation that we're in , and not saying abandon our personal or very present needs , but being able to step back and saying what are all these mechanisms that are informing the society that we live in ? And can we think about those ? Somebody thought about those Groups of people , thought about those . They were put in place . They're not just part of the world , like trees and lakes , they're constructed , they're a constructed paradigm . So how do we address those and understand what impact that has in our life ? So that's generally what I'm trying to offer people , both for them to think about , for myself to reflect as well .
Erin ThompsonOkay , and what's the state of affairs locally in regard to that effort ? So you work in an interfaith capacity .
Work at Just Cause
Erin ThompsonCan we talk a little bit about the work that you do professionally today ? Sure , absolutely yes , all right , and you are director of community outreach .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadDirector of community partnership at Just Cause . At Just .
Erin ThompsonCause . Okay , Care to say anything about what Absolutely Drew you too ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadWell , that , like the meeting with Kit , starts with an interaction with our executive director , tina Foster , who , if people have not had the opportunity to meet and interact with Tina , I highly encourage them to do so , and she can blame me if her phone starts ringing off the book , but I'm more than happy to really encourage people to interact with Tina . An amazing story there that could be an entire conversation , but having an opportunity where Tina and I interacted and she actually created a space in her organization for me to do this type of work . Just Cause's primary mission is to provide civil legal services pro bono to people that cannot have access to the resources otherwise . But what she is charged me with is going on the community and working both with legal agencies , community agencies , everything in the government the police department , the district attorney , the public defender , defender in order to , as we were talking about before , look at that broader whole and bring those things together . So the work that I'm doing with Just Cause , my colleagues are , let's say , more involved in the day-to-day person-by-person types of things .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadMy type of work would be engaging , like the Gandhi Institute , other community organizations to say what are we doing together to address some of these systemic types of issues and are there types of things ? Again , some of this takes foresight and patience , because some of them may take years to go , but if we don't address those , we will never move forward . So that's what that work is and it fundamentally centers around is the legal and judicial system serving the purpose of all people in terms of fairness and equity and access . So again , there are some people within those systems that are very , very committed to making that more equitable and more accessible . So that's some of the work that we are engaging with in that realm . I feel very , very privileged again and fortunate and , just like with Kit , an opportunity to work with Tina and our colleagues there , learn from her and other very , very experienced and wise people . Very experienced and wise people take that in and then hopefully share and learn with other people .
Erin ThompsonIn the same way that I've learned , we can and hopefully , uh , share some of that in a positive way as well yeah , you position yourself , uh , and present yourself as continual learner , um , even as you are a professor in your own right , and um are are asked to do a lot of speaking on topics that help to spark critical thinking among community members . That's one thing that I appreciate about you . So a lot of your work , you know , focuses on bringing together different aspects of the community for working toward common good ,
State of Affairs & Working Together
Erin Thompsonof the community for working toward common good . What's the state of affairs in us escaping the silos that we often describe our community service organizations as kind of operating within ? Are we on a path toward really actually enacting , pulling in the same direction and complementing each other ? That's a broad question , but where are we relative to how performed in the past in that way ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadI am very , very excited and feel positively about that and I think the different aspects of my personality feel part of it . The data and empirically driven part of my persona would say wow , we can look at data and see improvements and things that both quantitatively and qualitatively . So I can give you an example in the college classroom was having some of these discussions with some rather young students first or second year students and remarking upon is is change happening ? And some of them were more along the lines of we don't believe that there's change happening . I stopped and asked I said in this college classroom 30 , 40 , 50 years ago , would half of the class be women ? Would you have an African American Muslim professor standing in front of you teaching this class ? The answer to that was mostatively no .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadAnd if we extrapolate that to some of the things that are happening in the community , the very fact that we have some of these players in the same room and it's substantively engaging in collaboration , when we look at different entities of the judicial system , different community entities , which have been , very frankly , you know , there's been a lot of animosity and for some very , very turbulent and longly deeply entrenched problems . But having those people in the room , having them engage on things that we can focus on , shared goals , and not to say we're going to have a big , broad conversation but what specifically can we do ? So I feel very , very positively like that . Having grown up here and , of course , having again the privilege of being the son of a judge who came through an experience as African-American himself to really work for community . That deeply influenced me . But going away for 20 plus years going around the world and having that experience and then coming back and seeing our community with the tremendous challenges that are here , why I feel so energized is because I do see and believe that change is happening , that positive change is happening , and being able to be in those types of conversations and activities to move that forward . That being said , do we have very , very serious problems ? Yes , we have very deeply entrenched problems , absolutely , but if we have , where we are right now , even the ability to start addressing those in a substantive way , simeon Bannister , who I believe you and many others know very well , makes a point of let's not only I'm paraphrasing Simeon let's not only look at our challenges and troubles , but let's look at what's working well and being successful Correct , go back a hundred years ago , where the great migration was just starting to take off and African-Americans and other diverse populations were a very small part of Rochester .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadNow the plurality in the city of Rochester and the substantive part of the county of Monroe , the demographics have changed very , very much . We've went through a process , but now addressing some of those deeply entrenched things that has affected things like redlining , equities in the school system and unemployment , which have a long shadow in doing those types of things . But the remedy comes in working collaboratively , moving forward . What is step number one ? Recognizing what the problem is and how long it's been in place .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadIf we don't have that , I think that very clear understanding again that sometimes in conversations people may ask me why are you necessarily looking backwards or trying to take us to the root cause ? Because if we don't understand that , then we may be trying to do things or stuff that may not actually address the situation . And I firmly believe that one of the first things to do is to be able to have truly and sincerely an open heart and mind to engaging with those who are very dissimilar . Engaging with those who are very dissimilar . I suppose , aaron , if you and I were to stay in a conversation , which I would love to talk to you for days . Actually , we'd have a lot of shared values in common . We would have a lot of shared interest values , et cetera , and not only because we're both African-American men , but as people just you I as people but there's people , obviously , that are very dissimilar .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadGoing back to that military experience , one of the interesting things and one of the things that stayed with me is being put in a context where there are people that are very dissimilar to you , but you're focused on a goal and when you start working as a team , you start to actually see the humanity and the other people . First off , hey , we're a team , we have a mission to execute , we need to go do that . But in being able to do that , you start to say , well , wow , this person that I'm interacting with in these very serious , serious matters , they're a human being and , interestingly enough again , maybe counter to some of the , I would say , commonly held views many of the people in the military if I would say not most , I don't want to speak for everyone else because they understand the consequences of war . They are some of the people that are most opposed to wars happening . They are the people that would have to be involved in it . So , seeing the context and also the outcomes of that , there are actually some very thoughtful people within those spaces and those types of things , and that has also spurred a lot of my thinking about .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadWhat does nonviolence , what role does that play in the world ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadIf we take a historical context , whether it's from a religious standpoint , if you take Moses , jesus Christ , muhammad or peace be upon all of them and actually look carefully at their example , it was the peacemaking capacity and being able to touch other people's hearts which moved them forward , not that they had a big army or that they can wield power or had some formal societal position and those are just three examples across a range of philosophies , beliefs , whatever motivates a person with their internal value systems . I believe when we start inclining to that which makes peace , that is the most strongest type of influence the using of martial means and those types of things . Again , if people read the history and you read generals and famous people , there is no good war . General William Tecumseh Sherman , you know intimately involved in civil war , coined war as hell and that may seem just like a , you know , a throwaway statement , but you're talking about somebody was immersed in some of the worst carnage that humanity has seen and to describe it that way and see the impacts of that , there are no good wars .
Erin ThompsonYes , I'm very much appreciating what you're saying .
The Viability of Nonviolence at Scale
Erin ThompsonThat brings me to the question of nonviolence and its viability at the largest scale , and so does nonviolence scale . Is nonviolence possible under our current geopolitical framework that the world operates according to , with our boundaries and countries um protecting their uh sovereign interests ? Is there compatibility between a resolution of difference through non-violent means and the , the norms that we currently have in place , this kind of lack of the opposite of collectivist sort of way that we operate ?
Dr. Rashid MuhammadI again very affirmatively and deeply hold that belief is yes and that it's not only apropos or applicable to , let's say , intimate interactions between individuals , small groups of people and even , let's say , communities , but to the broader world . The timeless nature of some of the philosophical and religious constructs that are there are in place and people ascribe to those because of the nonviolence and peacemaking aspect of it . As you mentioned , geopolitical constructs are exactly that . We , as human beings , we've created those and then we've created these different types of things that may incline to our nature of gathering and wanting to possess things and viewing people that are dissimilar than us , or even more so unfamiliar to us , as a threat and those types of things . As to me , we look back at history , the major movements toward good is because there were people that espoused something in terms of peace . And if we look at all the different empires whether it's the British Empire , the Ottoman Empire , et cetera , the Roman Empire , the Ottoman Empire , et cetera , the Roman Empire All of those things came and they reached a nadir , a high point , but then they went away . But there's other things that have been enduring and those things that endure long-term .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadSo I do believe it's scalable and I think , unfortunately and sometimes humanity has to come to a critical point of , unfortunately , self-destruction before stepping back from that precipice and realizing , if we continue all this , all those things that people are hoarding or wanting become absolutely irrelevant . Yes , they become absolutely irrelevant , irrelevant . So seeing on the world stage just tremendously dark clouds of violence , division , divisiveness . But I will go back to a cliche it is darkest before the dawn , it is darkest before the dawn and a Gandhian principle . My mind tends to work hemispherically Like wow , we have to make these big changes and there has to be these big types of things . But you know , having the discussions with Kit and others and a Gandhian principle start where you are , start where you are . And I remember having that conversation , I should say conversations with Kit .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadAnd then my beloved wife Monica is a quilter . That is her passion and watching her go from an idea to maybe a project sketch out to starting to make the individual quilting pieces and unrolling , unfolding over months and sometimes years to make this wonderful thing and putting her love into it . It is building that quilt right around you and working with those very close to you and if we all just can do a little bit of that , I think that's what changes the world and I think , starting with self , and again , maybe these are . You know , I'm a slow learner . It's taken me quite a while to really absorb these things becoming like , am I really guiding myself in a way that both imbibes and displays the concepts that I really , you know , feel I hold dear ? Right , and that can be something very , very discreet as an interaction with a stranger to how you know I think about things , that type of stuff , but I think that's what makes the quote . And when we get outside of that as human beings , that's where I think the edges start to fray .
What brings you hope and joy?
Erin ThompsonRasheed Muhammad , appreciate your words . You mentioned a little bit earlier about some things that give you some hope . Anything else that you would mention that brings you joy these days , that helps you stay the course continue to inspire me and rejuvenate me .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadAnd looking at the generations I'm one of those fossils called a boomer looking at the generations that have come after my generation and seeing how people they're engaging and some of the barriers and constructs maybe people of my generation have are not there and they're more fluid , more willingness to engage , a more diverse set of people that they interact with . So seeing that , that gives me a lot of hope . Also , again , and maybe going from a negative to positive way , I think we are reaching one of those critical points in humanity where we as a species are going to have to make some decisions , and I hold hope , I really do believe that we're going to turn towards the positive and move towards a more equitable and sustainable way of living . So that gives me a lot of hope , gives me a lot of cool and a more community-based sort of way .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadIf we had gone back 10 , 15 , 20 years here in the Rochester community , many of the things that we see , whether it be the Rays Commission , our MAPI , the work that you're doing here at the Institute , a variety of different types of things doing here at the Institute , a variety of different types of things all the work that is happening from the Urban League and other organizations like that . It is very robust , it's very present , it is moving things forward . So I see that I see you , I see Dr Chanel Hawkins , I see Dr Candace Lucas , simeon Bannister a whole array of leaders that are out there that are just superbly intelligent , wonderful and dedicated people . And when I engage , you and others , the positive energy that comes from that , that's what gives me hope . It's not negativity , it's a very positive and confident energy going , uh , going forward . So , uh , being a small part of that is , uh , does my heart break it ?
Erin ThompsonThank you . Thank you for your time , thank you for your , for your thoughts , thank you for your energy . Um , I appreciate you . Uh , dr Rashid , thank you for being a part of this podcast , thank you for having me .
Dr. Rashid MuhammadI greatly appreciate the privilege of having this and , as someone I love very much , I greatly appreciate being in a conversation with you .
Erin ThompsonThere it is , folks . Thank you for listening . Take good care .
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